Air France (A330) 447 desaparece en el Atlántico

El Avioneto

El Avioneto

Active Member
pilot de peste dijo:
OK, pero es un foro, es mi opinion y no iba en la cabina por si dudabas...

Y me gustaria saber si lo que quisiste decir en vez de ARINC (air radio incorporated) o es ACARS, (Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System).

Esa zona de cb's aislados segun los pronosticos donde dicen por la ruta que volo seguramente estaba ahi esa barrera. iban ha 33 mil pies me parece y esta reportado hasta 480 el techo de las nubes, me parece que el techo del Airbus es de 390'. Una desviacion pudiese ser demasiado larga y de mayor consumo para un vuelo donde llevas combustible para un peso y una distancia determinada.

Saludos......................
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Creo que Raul se refiere a que no era una gran muralla de nubes, el reporte de tiempo significativo que pusieron las está ubicando como ISOLATED CB's osea, CB's aislados...
 
HeliPilot

HeliPilot

Well-Known Member
(El titulo del post esta mal pues no pudo haber "desaparecido del radar", puesto que no estaba en "contacto radar" solo venia volando sobre la aerovia UN873 y haciendo los reportes en los checkpoints, no se reporto en su siguiente punto y fue donde lo comenzaron a extrañar)

Algunas preguntas que yo me hago en estos momentos son . . . .

- Como es que nadie ha dicho, "se cayo en este lugar"? Como es que no se sabe con precision razonable donde cayo el avion? se habla de que se cayo en pasando INTOL, cerca de , pero con los sistemas modernos era para que dieran coordenadas exactas del lugar donde acuatizo o se estrello.

Ya de ahi con la posicion exacta y tomando en cuenta las corrientes maritimas y condiciones meteorologicas, se planea un Search Grid y se incia una busqueda por posibles sobrevivientes, pero hasta ahora veo que unos dicen que envian aviones desde España, otros que los Brasileños andan buscando, pero aun asi no veo que les quede muy claro donde buscar.

Y si los encuentran que? Los Brasileños tienen aviones de SAR con alcanze para 1000-1400 millas? Cuanto tiempo se van a tardar los Europeos en llegar? Donde van a repostar para realizar los patrones de busqueda? Aun usando la isla de Noroña son casi 1000 millas. Ya enviaron barcos? Ya detectaron algun ELT de las balsas? Cual es la temperatura y condiciones del mar para determinar si a pesar de haber sobrevivido el acuatizaje pudieran seguir vivos?

Los problemas sucedieron a casi 700 Millas Nauticas de la costa mas cercana, y a esa distancia solo puedes mandar aviones por la autonomia requerida (1400 Millas Nauticas redondo) en helicoptero el viaje redondo seria de cuando menos unas 10 horas.

Yo no se y pregunto? Que un avion de esos no trae algun sistema de rastreo que indique la posicion de donde esta exactamente el avion en todo momento independiente del RADAR?

Hace dos años trabajaba en el Golfo de Mexico alla por Louisiana y Texas e incluso los helicopteros de 7 asientos traian un sistema basado en telefonia satelital (Blue Sky Network) que reportaba mi posicion cada minuto, y si tenia yo una emergencia, presionaba el boton amarillo en la cabina y le enviaba mi posicion a la empresa casi cada segundo, es decir si me caia iban a saber exactamente en donde! Ademas podia usar el Satelital para enviar mensajes.

Aqui en el AIRBUS estaban pasando los reportes de los problemas atreves del ACARS que se diseño por ahi de los 70's.

Se reporta en INTOL, y a 50 MN de TASIL reporta problemas, CREO que este punto esta a casi 700 MN de la costa, en un helicoptero 700 MN se recorren en unas 6 horas, no hay helicoptero que cuente con autonomia suficiente para ser practico en este rescate, tendria que ser con barcos.
 
F

Felipe Garcia

New Member
Ya los españoles mandaron un Fokker a Cabo Verde para ayudar en la localizacion, al parecer es un F-27 Maritime equipado con sensores.

No hay señales de los ELT hasta ahora
 
El Avioneto

El Avioneto

Active Member
Air France: Missing plane probably crashed into Atlantic

Algo de CNN al momento...


The jet carrying 228 people from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil, that disappeared overnight as it entered an area of strong turbulence probably crashed into the Atlantic Ocean, the CEO of Air France said Monday.
A photo of the Airbus 330 that went missing over the Atlantic early Monday.

A photo of the Airbus 330 that went missing over the Atlantic early Monday.
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The first three hours of what was to have been an 11-hour flight appear to have been uneventful, CEO Pierre-Henri Gourgeon said.

But about 4:15 a.m. Paris time, Flight 447's automatic system began a four-minute exchange of messages to the company's maintenance computers, indicating that "several pieces of aircraft equipment were at fault or had broken down," he said.

"This succession of messages signals a totally unforeseeable, great difficulty," he said. "Something quite new within the plane."

During that time, there was no contact with the crew, Gourgeon said.

"It was probable that it was a little bit after those messages that the impact of the plane took place in the Atlantic," he added.

He said the Airbus A330 was probably closer to Brazil than to Africa when it crashed.

He noted that turbulence made flying "difficult" in the area but that it is "too early to say" exactly what happened.

The chances of finding any survivors from were "very low," French President Nicolas Sarkozy admitted Monday.

"This is a catastrophe the likes of which Air France has never seen before," he said at Charles de Gaulle International Airport, where he met with relatives of the missing.

"I said the truth to them: The prospects of finding survivors are very low," he said.

Asked the nationalities of those aboard, he said most of them were Brazilians but added, "that changes nothing, of course. They're victims. It doesn't matter about their nationality."

The airline company identified the nationalities of the victims as two Americans, an Argentinean, an Austrian, a Belgian, 58 Brazilians, five British, a Canadian, nine Chinese, a Croatian, a Dane, a Dutch, an Estonian, a Filipino, 61 French, a Gambian, 26 Germans, four Hungarians, three Irish, one Icelandic, nine Italians, five Lebanese, two Moroccans, three Norwegians, two Polish, one Romanian, one Russian, three Slovakian, two Spanish, one Swedish, six Swiss and one Turk.

Sarkozy said French authorities had sent ships and planes to the area about 400 kilometers from Brazil. "Our Spanish friends are helping us; Brazilians are helping us a lot as well."

He added that authorities were seeking the help of satellites that might be able to pick up signs of what happened to the 4-year-old Airbus 330.

No possibility was being excluded: Turbulence in the area was strong, but other planes were able to pass through it without incident, he said.

The plane had reported a problem with the electrical system, "but the specialists refuse for the moment to express themselves about any possibility," Sarkozy said.

The jet had also sent out a warning that it had lost pressure, the Brazilian air force said. Video Watch aviation expert describe possible scenarios »

It lost contact with air traffic control between Galeao International Airport in Rio de Janeiro and Charles de Gaulle International Airport in Paris, the airline said Monday.

The Airbus A330 sent out an automatic signal warning of the electrical problems just after 2 a.m. GMT Monday as it flew "far from the coast," said an Air France spokeswoman who declined to be identified. It had just entered a stormy area with strong turbulence, she said.

The jet was flying at an altitude of 35,000 feet and a speed of 521 mph, the air force said.

Among the passengers were 126 men, 82 women, seven children and a baby, in addition to the 12 crew members, Air France officials in Brazil said.

Much of the route is out of radar contact, Brazilian air force Col. Henry Munhoz told TV Globo.

Brazil's air force launched a search near the archipelago of Fernando de Noronha in the Atlantic Ocean, 365 km (226 miles) from Brazil's coast, a spokesman for the air force said.


Time line
2230 GMT Sunday Flight AF447 takes off from Rio's Airport do Galeao
0133 GMT Monday Plane makes last contact with Brazilian air traffic control
0148 GMT Plane disappears from radar
0320 GMT Plane fails to make scheduled radio contact
0530 GMT Brazilian Air Force launches search
0910 GMT Plane fails to make scheduled landing in Paris
Source: Brazilian Air Force

Two Brazilian squadrons are searching for the plane, although it disappeared after it left the country's radar space, said the officer, who declined to be identified.

The flight, AF 447, took off from Galeao International Airport at 11:30 p.m. Sunday GMT. It was scheduled to land in Paris at 9:10 a.m. GMT.

Its last known contact occurred at 2:33 a.m. GMT, the Brazilian air force spokesman said.

It was expected to check in with air traffic controllers at 3:20 a.m. GMT but did not do so, the Brazilian air force said in a statement.

Brazilian authorities asked the air force to launch a search mission just over three hours later, at 6:30 a.m. GMT, the statement said.

The plane reported no problems before takeoff, Joao Assuncao, Air France's manager in Brazil, told the country's Record TV.

The French ambassador to Senegal told BFMTV that French military aircraft had been dispatched to search around Cape Vert, or Green Cape, off the coast of the west African country.

The airline set up a crisis center at the Paris airport. It listed numbers for families to call: 0 800 800 812 for people in France and 00 33 1 57 02 10 55 for families outside France.

At a crisis center at the airport in Rio, relatives of the missing complained of a dearth of information from Air France, the Brazilian state news agency reported.

One man, who identified himself as Bernardo, said his brother, Romeo Amorim Souza, and his wife were on the missing flight.

"I came to the airport because I wasn't finding information, and my parents are very nervous," he told Agencia Brasil.

The missing A330 last underwent a maintenance check on April 16, the airline said.

CNN air travel expert Richard Quest said the twin-engine plane, a stalwart of transatlantic routes, had an impeccable safety record, with only one fatal incident involving a training flight in 1994.

"It has very good range and is extremely popular with airlines because of its versatility," he said.

Its crew was composed of three pilots and nine cabin crew members, including a captain who has logged 11,000 hours in flight. About 1,700 of those hours were on the A330 and A340. Of the two co-pilots, one has 3,000 hours of flying experience and the other 6,600 hours. The aircraft has flown 18,870 hours.

The model is "capable of communicating in several different ways over quite long distances even if they are out of radar coverage," said Kieran Daly of the online aviation news service Air Transport Intelligence.

The French Accident Investigation Bureau for civil aviation is investigating, the company said in a statement.
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CNN's Lianne Turner, Ayesha Durgahee, Helena DeMoura, Isa Soares and Mariano Castillo contributed to this report.
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LorenzoP

LorenzoP

Active Member
Valgame dios , empezando Junio y viene otro accidente , esperemos y estas personas se encuentren bien , me imagino alos pilotos entre turbulencias y rayos esperemos y todos esten con vida , y el avion alla o acuatizado o aterrizado
 
H

Hector_787

New Member
Valgame ! muy lamentable este hecho, aun asi espero como ustedes que se aclaren las cosas y veamos que ocurrio realmente y cuales fueron las consecuencias, pendientes.
 
El Yaqui

El Yaqui

New Member
Hay que tener fé, aún en los momentos más difíciles hay milagros, esperemos que esten con bien.



Yaqui.
 
R

ROBERTO LARA

New Member
que mal

que mala noticia concuerdo con helipilot que este avion no tiene algun dispositivo con que lo puedan almenos darse una idea de donde puede estar que pasa si ai sobrevivientes y mueren ahogados o por falta de alimentos
 
S

serfo

Guest
leyendo toda la informacion, creo que hay una vaga posibilidad de que amerisara el avion y por alguna razon el avion se haya sumergido y sea dificil detectar la señal del elt, y ya con esto quiza haya sobrevivientes en las balzas aunque se ve muy difil y poco probable dadas las condiciones y en pleno mar abierto. Por otra parte suena dificil que esta clase de pilotos por mas intrepidos o valientes se avienten a meterse a alguna barrera de cb's, muchas veces puedes tener reporte de cb's isolados, pero en la noche y ya entrando en alguna capa de stratocumulos se hace mas complicado identificarlos, es una cadena de errores creo yo que llevo a una falla mayor capaz de tirar al avion y dejandolo fuera de alcance de cualquier aeropuerto, pues hay que estar pendientes para ver que sucedio exactamente y esperemos como comente que pueda haber alguien con vida, saludos
 
R

Raul B

Active Member
Hola, si me referia a ACARS , sorry .... y en efecto, si el avion usualmente manda reportes de poscicion en forma de coordenadas geograficas, se me hace igual de raro, que no hayan encontrado restos o señales del avion.

POr otro lado, en el tiempo significativo de la republica Mexicana el dia de hoy correspondiente a las 0600 utc, iwualmente aparece una zona de pornostico de Cb's aislados con cuspides hasta 52000 fts creo, y abarca practicamente la mitad del territorio nacional, lo cual no quiere decir, que no se puedan hacer vuelos en esta zona, pero definitivamente un radar meteorologico, necesario en la zona de pronostico.

Esperemos que pronto se tengan noticias del avion.
 
proto

proto

New Member
se que se oye un poco loco, pero esto me recuerda la serie de television de LOST, solo espero como la mayoria que todos esten sanos y salvos y pues a esperar noticias
 
P

pilot de peste

Member
Sky News:

'Plane sent message it had electrical short circuit after strong turbulence'

'Short circuit message received at 02:14 UTC, 15 minutes after turbulence'


216 pax onboard, 126 men, 82 women, 7 infants and babies.

12 crew (3 pilots, 9 cabin crew)

Captain 11,000 hrs TT (1700 on Airbus A330/A340)
Copilot 3,000 hrs TT (800 on Airbus A330/A340)
Copilot 6,600 hrs TT (2600 on Airbus A330/A340)

Aircraft equipped with engines General Electric CF6-80E.


Airframe had 18,870 flight hours since commencing service on 18 April 2005.


Last visit maintenance hangar dated 16 April 2009.

Fuente: La internE
 
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