B777. Incidente en Heathrow.... Enero 17 (Fotos Y Video)

XA-CMF

Super Moderator
Gracias estimado DreamLiner!!

Wow, con esta nueva querella, entonces es aun mas milagroso que este accidente no hubiera sido una catastrofe pues no hubo fuego aun y cuando las alas y motores tuvieron daños bastante fuertes.

Ahora, esto va a causar mas especulaciones acerca del sistema de control del 777 para los motores RR, puediera haber ahi un glitch!
 

XA-CMF

Super Moderator
Tomadas de las Aviation News Bits que nuestro buen amigo Dreamliner hace favor de contribuir a este foro.

Descarto mi pensamiento anterior acerca de un posible fallo de los sistemas de control del 777 con los RR ya que estas dos noticias que a continuacion se reproducen dan dos puntos de vista deiferentes y sobre todo muy contrarios. Claro, la segunda realmnete es especulacion de los pilotos, y la primera parece estar mas fundada que de hecho siento que contribuye a una pieza mas de este rompecabezas que poco a poco se esta formando. Con la noticia acerca de que los motores si estaban funcionando y de hecho si aceleraron pero no lo suficiente y las evidencias de las fotos de los blades rotos pues empieza hacer mas sentido, pero entonces... que pudo haber dañado los blades de los motores?

Birdstrike esta descartado pues no se encontraron restos de pajaros. Quiza podra ser que pasaron por una zona de hielo? aunque esto huebiera creado mas daños en otras partes del avion.

Caray, que bueno se pone esto!


Dream Liner dijo:
Que sucedió con el BA 777 - La evidencia


What happened to the BA 777 - the evidence


Flight International
Author Unassigned
Fri, 25 Jan 08 10:51:14 GMT



Close-up photographs of the fan blades in the port (No 1) and starboard (No 2) engines show dramatically different damage patterns. The considerable damage to the No 1 fan - at least one blade missing completely and most broken off about half way between root and tip - is consistent with the engine turning with at least some power on as the gear collapsed and the engine contacted the soft ground. The No 2 engine has received damage from the ground consistent with it being stationary or windmilling with little or no power on.

Photographs also show the ram air turbine (RAT) just behind and below the wing trailing edge on the starboard lower fuselage, but it is not certain whether this had been deployed or not. The RAT would deploy automatically on electric or hydraulic failure or can be deployed manually by the crew.

The intake of the auxiliary power unit is open, indicating that the crew had selected its operation, which is not an action taken on normal approaches.
Dream Liner dijo:
Lo que comentan los pilotos acerca del accidente del BA 777


What pilots are saying about the BA 777 accident
Flight International
Author Unassigned
Fri, 25 Jan 08 10:51:14 GMT



Pilots who know British Airways and the Boeing 777 tell Flight International they believe that whatever happened to reduce the engine power occurred in the last three minutes, possibly even the last two minutes, of the flight.

Given the task of diagnosing the cause in order to maintain power and simultaneously keeping the aircraft clear of stalling speed as power reduced, the crew did well to select accurately the best touchdown point they could achieve and put the aircraft down, still under control, with wings level and a rate of descent that prevented serious damage.

Heathrow tower controllers believed the aircraft's nose-high attitude on approach indicated it was about to go around, but shortly after one of the controllers voiced that opinion, the crew declared an emergency.

Among many theories as to the reason for a simultaneous failure of both engines after a long, uneventful flight, fuel contamination appears to come out top in the probabilities list. The theory pilots propose is that although fuel was plentiful, a heavier-than-fuel contaminant, such as water, represented a minute proportion of the fuel in the tanks on the approach, so problems did not arise.

During the flight, the fuel was cold-soaked and any contaminant could have frozen to crystalline or solid form. Then, in the bumpy approach at lower levels, as the fuel warmed, the melting contaminant began to circulate in the relatively small amount of fuel remaining, forming a slush that could impede the fuel flow to the engines. This is only a pilot theory and there is no positive evidence for it from any official source.

Pilots do not rule out the double-engine birdstrike theory, but the photographs do not appear to show bird remains on fanblades, engine intakes, wing leading edges or nose.
 

Dream Liner

Well-Known Member
Boeing issues operational advice to counter 777 fuel icing

(London)
ATI
Fri, 05 Sep 08 15:48:26 GMT



Boeing has issued three operational recommendations to carriers using Rolls-Royce Trent 800-powered 777s, after icing in the fuel system emerged as the prime suspect behind the crash of a British Airways aircraft at Heathrow.

Two of the recommendations deal with in-flight operations using the type. The airframer says that, when the main tank fuel temperature is below minus 10°C the crew should induce "periodic" climbs to higher altitudes using maximum thrust. This can be achieved through the vertical navigation function of the flight-management system.

Boeing's second advisory applies to flights which have maintained the same altitude for at least three hours. Before descent, if the fuel temperature is below minus 10°C, the pilots should advance the throttles to maximum thrust for 10s or until the airspeed reaches M0.86.

The third focuses on refuelling operations on the ground. It states that, if the fuel in the main tanks is not expected to rise above 0°C before the next flight, the fuel pumps should be run for a maximum of 1min.

All these operational advisories are designed to minimise the risk of water-ice building up inside the fuel system during cruise, and being released in quantities capable of overwhelming the ability of the engines' fuel/oil heat exchanger to melt it.

Ice constriction of the fuel system is thought to have led to the power loss in both Trent engines on a BA 777 during approach to Heathrow on 17 January. The twin-jet, arriving from Beijing, crashed short of the runway.

While 777s are available with General Electric GE90 and Pratt & Whitney PW4000 engines, the recommendations only apply to Rolls-Royce-powered 777s.

"What's come out of the analysis is that the [other engines] are not subject to this condition," says a spokesman for Boeing, although the reasons for this are unclear.

But the UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch points out: "Testing and research into this, apparently hitherto unknown, phenomenon has only been conducted on the Boeing 777 installed with Rolls-Royce Trent 800 engines, and it is unknown whether other aircraft and engine types may also be susceptible."

Fuel temperature on the BA 777 involved in the accident dropped to minus 34°C as the aircraft cruised at high altitude and passed through regions of particularly cold air.

During the investigation analysts obtained fuel temperature data from 141,000 flights by 777s fitted with engines from all three powerplant manufacturers. Only 0.2% experienced fuel temperatures below minus 34°C. The lowest temperature discovered was minus 39°C on a GE90-powered 777.
 

Dream Liner

Well-Known Member
BA 777 inquiry: Additives could serve as anti-icing measure

(London)
Flight international




European regulators, in consultation with US counterparts, have agreed to define interim measures for Rolls-Royce Trent-powered Boeing 777 aircraft to reduce the risk of icing causing an engine roll-back.

The decision follows UK Air Accidents Investigation Branch findings which point to water icing as having restricted fuel-flow to both engines on the British Airways 777 which crashed at London Heathrow in January.

While the nature of the interim measures has yet to become clear, the AAIB has today put forward two preliminary suggestions.

One option, it says, would be to use fuel additives designed to inhibit icing. At concentrations of 0.10-0.15% these inhibitors migrate to undissolved water in fuel, lowering its freezing point to around minus 43°C and preventing its becoming ice.

Investigators estimate that fuel uploaded to the BA aircraft before its departure from Beijing contained up to 3l of dissolved and 2l of undissolved water.

The tanks may have contained residual water from previous flights, and a maximum of 0.14l would also have been drawn in through the fuel-tank vents during the Beijing-Heathrow service. The AAIB says these levels are normal.

Although icing inhibitors are not commonly used in commercial aircraft - and none was detected in the fuel used on the BA 777 - they have routinely been used by armed forces on military types for decades.

An alternative measure, says the AAIB, would be the introduction of operational changes to reduce the risk of ice formation during critical stages of flight.

"Such changes could be implemented quickly but must not compromise the safe operation of the aircraft," it adds.

While the European Aviation Safety Agency and the US FAA are to assess the implications of the investigation, the AAIB states that any design changes to make fuel systems more tolerant to icing would "certainly not be available" in the near-term.

It adds: "Therefore, to reduce the risk of recurrence, interim measures need to be adopted until such design changes to the fuel system are available."
 

Chieftain

New Member
Lo que pasa después de un accidente

Saludos.

Tal parece que sólo hacemos énfasis en los accidentes cuando suceden (obvio), las probables causas (lo oficial, lo que nos parece y lo que se publica posterior a las investigaciones).

Pero el factor humano SIEMPRE se deja de lado.

El año pasado, vimos el ascenso a la historia de los héroes al Capt. "Sully", el del A319 en el Hudson, (nadie habló del Copiloto que creo también venía abordo verdad?).

Bueno, con respecto al accidente del BA777, el Capitán al mando fúé invitado a "jubilarse" a sus 44 productivos años de edad y no ha podido encontrar trabajo nuevamente por el hecho de que en su expediente y record de currículum tiene el estigma de "crashed".


Aqui la nota original del Telegraph:
___________________________________________________________________________


Pilot who saved jet passengers can't find new job
Captain Peter Burkill, the pilot who saved 152 passengers by landing a stricken jet at Heathrow airport, has signed on the dole after failing to get a job - because he has a crash on his CV.

Published: 7:00AM BST 23 Sep 2009


Peter Burkill was commended after his heroic actions averted disaster Photo: PA He was commended after his heroic actions averted disaster as his Boeing 777 narrowly avoided crash landing when its engines failed two miles short of the runway.

But the 44 year-old, who took voluntary redundancy last month after 20 years with BA, has already been turned down for one pilot's job and heard nothing back from dozens of other airlines.

He has now been forced to live on £64-a-week Jobseeker's Allowance.

Airline Korean Air - which has a fleet of Boeing 777s like the one Peter flew at BA - turned him down because his CV showed he was a pilot in charge of a plane which had ''crashed''.

Peter's wife Maria, 34, said the family even faced losing their £500,000 home in Worcester if he did not get a new job soon.

She said on Tuesday: ''Korean Air said they wanted somebody who didn't have a crash on their record.

''If only they would see how fantastic Pete is and how experienced he is but they refuse to see past the fact that his plane did crash land. They don't want to know the reasons behind it.

''It is frustrating because Pete is a pilot and loves flying. He decided to leave British Airways for lots of reasons but he still wants to fly.''

Maria is also taking on extra hours as a paramedic while Peter stays at home and looks after their three children.

She said: ''Pete was given 52 weeks pay as part of his redundancy but sooner or later that money is going to run out.

''I would say we have until next August otherwise we will have to look at selling our home. Pete is looking at doing after dinner speaking to make some money but he really wants to fly.''

Peter was commended for his ''cool, calm reactions'' when he told his co-pilot John Coward to take the controls, while he altered the angle of the plane's wing flaps as it approached the landing strip.

His actions allowed the plane to clear Heathrow airport's boundary fence and avoided a disastrous crash into nearby houses.

There were claims Peter was forced out of British Airways after a whispering campaign claiming he had ''chickened out'' when he gave the controls to Mr Coward.

Maria said: ''There are lots of things we could say but we can't yet because we don't want to jeopardise Pete's redundancy.''

The couple have also written a book about their experiences since the crash which they hope to publish in December.

Maria said: ''We are doing whatever we can to earn some more money in order to look after and protect our family.''
 
A

Alberto Camacho Sarabia

Guest
Muy fuerte "incidente", afortunadamente nadie salió herido y el avión se detuvo en un lugar donde no pudiese hacer más daño...
 

Collective

Active Member
Saludos.

Tal parece que sólo hacemos énfasis en los accidentes cuando suceden (obvio), las probables causas (lo oficial, lo que nos parece y lo que se publica posterior a las investigaciones).

Pero el factor humano SIEMPRE se deja de lado.

El año pasado, vimos el ascenso a la historia de los héroes al Capt. "Sully", el del A319 en el Hudson, (nadie habló del Copiloto que creo también venía abordo verdad?).

Bueno, con respecto al accidente del BA777, el Capitán al mando fúé invitado a "jubilarse" a sus 44 productivos años de edad y no ha podido encontrar trabajo nuevamente por el hecho de que en su expediente y record de currículum tiene el estigma de "crashed".


Aqui la nota original del Telegraph:
___________________________________________________________________________


Pilot who saved jet passengers can't find new job
Captain Peter Burkill, the pilot who saved 152 passengers by landing a stricken jet at Heathrow airport, has signed on the dole after failing to get a job - because he has a crash on his CV.

Published: 7:00AM BST 23 Sep 2009


Peter Burkill was commended after his heroic actions averted disaster Photo: PA He was commended after his heroic actions averted disaster as his Boeing 777 narrowly avoided crash landing when its engines failed two miles short of the runway.

But the 44 year-old, who took voluntary redundancy last month after 20 years with BA, has already been turned down for one pilot's job and heard nothing back from dozens of other airlines.

He has now been forced to live on £64-a-week Jobseeker's Allowance.

Airline Korean Air - which has a fleet of Boeing 777s like the one Peter flew at BA - turned him down because his CV showed he was a pilot in charge of a plane which had ''crashed''.

Peter's wife Maria, 34, said the family even faced losing their £500,000 home in Worcester if he did not get a new job soon.

She said on Tuesday: ''Korean Air said they wanted somebody who didn't have a crash on their record.

''If only they would see how fantastic Pete is and how experienced he is but they refuse to see past the fact that his plane did crash land. They don't want to know the reasons behind it.

''It is frustrating because Pete is a pilot and loves flying. He decided to leave British Airways for lots of reasons but he still wants to fly.''

Maria is also taking on extra hours as a paramedic while Peter stays at home and looks after their three children.

She said: ''Pete was given 52 weeks pay as part of his redundancy but sooner or later that money is going to run out.

''I would say we have until next August otherwise we will have to look at selling our home. Pete is looking at doing after dinner speaking to make some money but he really wants to fly.''

Peter was commended for his ''cool, calm reactions'' when he told his co-pilot John Coward to take the controls, while he altered the angle of the plane's wing flaps as it approached the landing strip.

His actions allowed the plane to clear Heathrow airport's boundary fence and avoided a disastrous crash into nearby houses.

There were claims Peter was forced out of British Airways after a whispering campaign claiming he had ''chickened out'' when he gave the controls to Mr Coward.

Maria said: ''There are lots of things we could say but we can't yet because we don't want to jeopardise Pete's redundancy.''

The couple have also written a book about their experiences since the crash which they hope to publish in December.

Maria said: ''We are doing whatever we can to earn some more money in order to look after and protect our family.''
Una lástima que se olvide de esta forma a alguien que hizo bien su trabajo. Desempleado es lo último que me gustaría estar a los 44 años :(
 

Moy206

Well-Known Member
Oraleee!... o sea que hubo quienes le dijeron que se "le frunció" y por eso le cedió los controles al primer oficiaal mientras él maniobraba los flaps para no caer en la ciudad...,

Que mala onda... (N)...
 

Phillip J fry

Well-Known Member
Pues..

No se si ya escucharon esto, impresionante.

[youtube]zuSHa3-Nz0w[/youtube] [youtube]FNJPR-z4SgM[/youtube]

Aunque cayeron cortos a la pista, hicieron una super Chamba los aviadores.
Asi como del ATC y los servicios de Emergencia.

Robert

Anexe el video, momentos antes del accidente, donde se puede ver claramene la actitud del avion por la falta de potencia.
 
Última edición:

Phillip J fry

Well-Known Member
Video

Que tal

Anexo al tema, este video, aunque es corto, fue filmado, momentos antes del accidente, y se puede ver claramente la actitud del 777, que por la falta de potencia, empieza a levantar la nariz....

[youtube]FNJPR-z4SgM[/youtube]

Robert
 
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